Archery Skill: AoE Arrow Return

Idea: what about a archery skill that auto retrieves your arrow for you. The higher tier the skill is, the farther the arrow can come back to you from. This would make it so you would have to spend time picking up your arrows while fighting monsters.

How it works, if the arrow hits the ground in a certain radius depending on what tier it is, it will fly towards your either quiver or slot that you are holding arrows in. If the arrow hits the ground outside your radius, it won’t collect even if you walk towards it

I think there’s an ability that allows you to shake a pouch of arrows and it sucks in all surrounding arrows, I know there’s one for rock, flint, ores, feathers and spriggul. There probably is one for arrows

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Yep, and I’d rather deal high damage than pick those suckers up.

Your personal preference has little to do with the discussion of a suggested skill. Some people like gather skills, others don’t bother. But that’s all opinion. Try to remember to post content that goes beyond opinion, and…

Instead, provide reasoned counter-arguments that improve the conversation.

The suggested skill behavior is kinda comparable to some Dungeons & Dragons features, chiefly the artificer’s infusion skill: Returning Weapon and Repeating Shot infusion(s)

Repeating Shot
If you load no ammunition in the weapon, it produces its own, automatically creating one piece of magic ammunition when you make a ranged attack with it. The ammunition created by the weapon vanishes the instant after it hits or misses a target.


Personally I think it’s a really nifty idea, that sort of combines a gather skill with power shot|bullet. It could be a good combined branch between power shot and gather lvl2. I’d use it, since it would return some arrows to you so you can keep putting arrows on target, without the need to go pick them up or even look away from your enemy. If it means I get an extra 2-5 shots per quiver-load, that’s DEADLY: the archer that runs out of ammo first in the long duel, loses.

@planteia how many arrows in a 20-arrow quiver would you have magically return to you? 1 per 20 feels underwhelming, and more than 10 would be kinda OP lol, 1.5x quiver capacity with a skill!

Wouldn’t this defeat the purpose of the arrows entirely if the bow becomes a gatling gun with infinite arrows? Where’s the fun in just grabbing a string and getting an arrow? There’s a distinct luxury and :sparkles:experience :sparkles: with removing an arrow from a quiver, loading it into a bow, and plucking it from the chicken-splattered ground, is there not? Maybe it could be a ghost arrow, where you charge your fist in the air and grab the string, then the arrow spawns, and the arrow stays present until pulled from the ground. There’s only some removed experience.

You’re cherry-picking details of content that I referenced verbatim from Dungeons & Dragons. I DID lead with:

…behavior is KINDA comparable…

In DnD logic repeating shot is a ranger’s dream come true for the exact opposite reason of all the ‘experience’ you enjoy: it makes the ranger an even deadlier enemy by cutting out less-than-necessary motions.

And the best part? It’s already optional in its wording!

-IF- YOU LOAD NO AMMUNITION IN THE WEAPON, it produces its own…

You can still provide ammo from a quiver, allowing you to use your quiver(s) specifically for more important arrows, like explosive tips or rare metal tips, etc. It means you will always be able to make a ranged attack.

We already have multi-arrow skills in Township Tale, and arrow collection skills, so what’s the difference in it being phantom arrow ammo reload VS +2 phantom arrows added per shot?


What is an Artificer? Infusion? Is it a gatling gun? ALL SPECIFICALLY D&D

Infusions are magic enhancements that are specific to Artificers, and have limitations. Essentially imagine a steampunk wizard: they implement magic into mundane tools and weapons as their specialty. They can only maintain a handful at a time, and some are even more powerful: replicate magic item scales with level to replicate permitted magic items, technically giving the players a literal NUKE option if you insert 1 bag of holding into another, or some crazy good equipment later in the game; repulsion shield increases overall armor score AND repels enemies; Helm of Awareness basically gives you RADAR. (See previous response links if you wanna check)

To be fully honest with you, repeating shot is actually wasted on a bow. In DnD, an archer can multi-attack per round while using a bow. As you level, you gain more and more attacks based on your class level. The auto-ammo doesn’t actually improve anything for a bow, other than some +1 to stats.
Because a crossbow requires a whole reload action, you CAN’T multi-attack with a crossbow… normally. In steps the Artificer, infusing their limited magic into the weapon.

This isn’t a gatling gun. The weapon must still be pulled or re-strung to fire a new projectile, even if it’s a phantom projectile. It’s also limited to the number of attacks a D&D character can make:1-5 depending on multiple aspects/lvl scaling.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk, artificer is best class, if it isn’t obvious
You can make IRON MAN in medieval times lol

Experience Factor
Still, with the phantom arrows, you still get the same dopamine experience from loading an arrow. Yes, it is an optional skill, but take this example: You’re playing a game where everything you do is done by pressing one button. It’s fun at first, but there is no fun in a game without learning muscle memory and obtaining a genuine skill. Anyone can work until, say one or two archery levels and unlock the dry shot skill, but they will miss the feeling of the bow-loading experience. Technically, every fun game you’ve ever played is a “Learning” game. Adapting and gaining skills, and tweaking slight things to get better at that game. Have you ever played a ‘Rage Game’? You learn muscle memory and use it to beat the level. Ever mistook controls on one game for the game controls you played earlier? That’s good! That means you were having so much fun, you gained a skill. Returning to ATT, you can plainly see through the whole game that there are skills to learn, and it’s about the experience. Why ruin it with a bow without arrows? To your D&D statement of “less than necessary” motions, there is still a sense of pride in firing a shot with 3 arrows but only taking one, and the triple dry shot would just make it more boring because 1 hit kills on everything with a minimum effort doesn’t strike “Fun” in a person. That’s like walking into a TF2 lobby and instantly winning in one second.

Statistic Factor
So let’s say you have fire-crystal-tipped arrows that do damage of 0.5. How much does this dry-shot arrow do? One crystal, stick, and a whole feather to make three arrows that do 3X damage than the dry-shot arrow seems better to me.
Now, one might argue, “But you lose those arrows!” No, you have a chance to lose that arrow if it gets stuck. Swerving to your D&D statement, you forget that ATT is not a board game, but a VR game. Just looking at the acronym; Virtual Reality, gives the concept that actions should be life-like, not placing down a “Pot Of Greed” magic card and winning a battle (I put this in statistical because it goes directly against the platform name). Then we get to speed. How fast does the skill charge? If it’s instant, then players would dry-spam enemies at first sight. What’s the cooldown? The arrow should not be able to be spammed, like mentioned before.

This isn’t a Gatling gun. The weapon must still be pulled or re-strung to fire a new projectile

Yes, but again you forget this is VR, not a board game. There is no animation, round cooldown, or resistance on the player’s hand for pulling a string in VR. the player could easily pretend they are starting a lawnmower at 10X speed and rapid-fire if the above speed statement is null.

Sorry for assaulting your eyes with text, by the way! :woozy_face:

This post is subject to change

Just gonna lead with the fact that the entire point of this topic is a new skill suggestion to magic auto-reload bows, and you’ve mainly just complained about the concept, without providing possible solutions to the ‘problems’ you see.

Whether you like the suggestion or not is totally fine, you voiced that opinion with your pride(??) and spam concerns.

But you went on this super long tangent about how DnD and aTT are two different games, and bringing up rage games… of course they’re different games! That’s what allows me to reference them: it’s not Township. It’s inspiration, learning from what exists, and reference. How do I reference Township for non-existing content? There’s no TRUE magic to reference because that feature will come later.

All of your points are flawed, and I’m willing to explain EVERYTHING:


:warning: CAUTION: LOTS OF WORDS CONTAINED BELOW. :warning:

On topic skill discussion

This has been your only suggestion:

it could be a ghost arrow, where you charge your fist in the air and grab the string, then the arrow spawns, and the arrow stays present until pulled from the ground. There’s only some removed experience.

1 potential gesture to activate the skill.

Why ruin it with a bow without arrows?

Because by that logic the game is already ruined since we don’t have to hydrate with fluids, have bowel movements, get character rest, clean our bodies, change clothes, maintain our gear(sharpen and oil blades/un-string or re-string bow/wipe away blood/replace leather grip), or a HOST of other ‘realistic’ qualities.

How does 1 phantom arrow ruin the immersion, but multishot is hyperrealism? Please, explain to me how materializing 1 arrow instead of 2+ammo is OP? Without arguing that they combine to become a denser phantom arrow. It’s just [1] multishot arrow.

How fast does the skill charge? If it’s instant, then players would dry-spam enemies at first sight. What’s the cooldown? The arrow should not be able to be spammed, like mentioned before.

  • “players would hit on first sight” sooo like regular combat…? Does there need to be a huge delay?
  • Assumes it’s rapid-fire reload, equates it to spam
  • No mention of mana/ cast/ focus/ cost/ cooldown…

Assumptions, but no suggested solutions. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:
Did you consider that maybe it WOULDN’T be rapid fire?

DnD logic breakdown:

If we base the speed on DnD, we have 3 measurement systems to reference: turn duration in combat, # of attacks per turn, and overall character stats.
Each turn in combat lasts 6 seconds, to prevent people from giving an hour-long speech or running a mile each turn.
During a turn, a lvl1-4 player gets 1 attack. As the player levels IN SPECIFIC CLASSES, they gain extra attacks. The first attack # increase comes at lvl5, and later in the upper levels of martial classes.
The stats of a player effect the overall damage applied and likelihood of the hit. This can be equated to player skill in aTT: how well the individual can handle a bow/aim.

Max Ranger attacks is 3, 5 if mixed with fighter, so we’re talking a max of 3 attacks in 6 seconds. But with our current max lvl in aTT, I’d say we could only make 2 attacks in 6 seconds, and here’s why:

I am convinced aTT’s current max level stops at around DnD lvl7, which is about the point in DnD when really important skills and abilities start to activate. At lvl7 rogues AND monks can take 1/2 damage from AoE or none at all if they dodge (typically dodge deals 1/2 damage), and the monk ALSO gains ‘Stillness of Mind’, which lets the character CHOOSE(a random outcome otherwise) to remove a negative mental effect (charmed or frightened). At lvl9 the fighter can re-roll a failed ‘save’ (to avoid negative effect), and at lvl10 the Paladin gains a 10ft anti-fright aura buff.

If we are to assume that this IS a skill belonging to an archer, and not an engineering wizard specializing in war tools, the closest related existing DnD spell “skill” is Lvl5 Swift Quiver. Before I explain the skill, just wanna point out: a DnD Ranger gains their first lvl5 spell slot at lvl17/20, and their spell slots only regenerate after an 8-hour long rest (sleep). aTT stops at lvl7 in my opinion. We aren’t even 1/2 way to that power level in terms of a skill. That’s 1 use, lasting up to 1 minute, per day.

But an artificer learns to infuse at lvl2. They’re a support role, so they mostly buff. They’re the perfect party booster.

The skill:
The ranger touches a quiver containing at least 1 piece of ammo(arrow in our case), and while focusing for up to 60 seconds (when hit by an enemy the Ranger must roll dice to check if control of the spell remains or if they lose focus), the quiver allows the Ranger to draw endless phantom arrows from the quiver. In DnD effect it allows an extra 2 attacks per turn. The effect ends early if the quiver leaves the ranger’s posession.
Given that 1 turn is 6 seconds, you can get 60/6 = 10 uses(phantom arrow pulls)/per cast, per day.
And the spell requires at least 1 piece of ammo, making that single arrow even MORE efficient than your 2+1 ammo: a potential max of 20 phantom arrows across 60 seconds.

Yes, but again you forget this is VR, not a board game. There is no animation, round cooldown, or resistance on the player’s hand for pulling a string in VR. the player could easily pretend they are starting a lawnmower at 10X speed and rapid-fire if the above speed statement is null.

You sure? There’s not a cooldown or skill charge in VR?
So if I go play aTT right now, I can machine-gun fire the charged shot arrows? Or I can endlessly smash the AoE thunder attack, or I can toss a bag without shaking it since I don’t need to gesture to activate a gather skill?

There are definitely cooldowns and ‘animations’ in-game, maybe not for the bow in this specific way, but again: this is a SUGGESTION, so that would be IMPOSSIBLE for those things to exist when the content isn’t. even. in. game.
The devs would have to make it.

But even if there wasn’t a cooldown AT ALL… The world’s fastest archer Lars Anderson can fire 10 arrows in <5 Seconds, so what’s your point if a player can lawn-mower pull their arrows? Not real enough?


:fast_forward: TL;DR: :fast_forward:
right now I would say with aTT’s max character level, there would only be 1 skill level at max ranger level.

Per skill ‘cast’/use, the archer should be able to use up to 2 phantom arrows in a 6-10 second period, aka a quick charged shot by our current aTT skills standards.
Depending on if it takes mana or behaves like current skills, it could be on a gesture-activated basis or it could remain active for a period of time, like the blacksmith buff.


:stop_sign:

That’s all of your talking points that are ON topic. But I don’t want you to feel like I just ignored half of what you asked, so here’s the rest of your response questions/subjects:

:warning: CAUTION: LOTS OF WORDS CONTAINED BELOW. :warning:

Tangent response regarding subjects: rage games, referencing other platforms/games, 1 button games, learning games, archer feeling, board games, etc

Have you ever played a ‘Rage Game’?

For the record, I’m a Monster Hunter. Have been for 10 years since MHT3 on Wii.


I’m not a master or anything, but with 14 weapon types, 84 different weapon switch skills, 61 unique boss-level monsters, and I’ve used every weapon and killed every boss… yeah I’d say I can rage game.

Learning muscle memory for MH has nothing to do with aTT, or other same-console games. Playing the guitar without thinking is muscle memory. Typing in your debit card bank PIN without using numbers but rather the key pattern is muscle memory.

You’re playing a game where everything you do is done by pressing one button. It’s fun at first, but there is no fun in a game without…

And that’s why Pacman, Pong, Snake, every line-rider/motocross jumping game, Flappy bird, Temple Run and other single button/joystick games failed, right?? Because they got boring? Or wait, people still play those to this day, and Pacman originated 1980.
Look at all these games you trash talked! (each word is 1 link)
So yeah, it might bore you, but that’s not ANYTHING to do with the game still being fun and replayable for people.

but they will miss the feeling of the bow-loading experience

3 solutions, super simple:

  1. Don’t learn the skill
  2. Learn the skill, but continue to load your own arrows, keep the skill as an emergency no-more arrows backup
  3. Learn the skill, and use it to preserve your high quality arrows, while still using arrow pull and bow aiming skills.

Bonus suggestion: Quit the game and go shoot some real bow arrows if you have to feel something. You don’t get any kinetic feedback from the controllers, so TECHNICALLY you don’t physically FEEL anything.

Technically, every fun game you’ve ever played is a “Learning” game

Duh. Tutorials. New players. Newb/Noobs. EVERYONE who games knows this. It’s so mainstream that it’s become a modern design standard: gamification. In fact, THAT is so mainstream, that the badges and titles of this forum are an EXAMPLE of gamification! So it’s not JUST games, but EVERYTHING has a learning curve.

ATT is not a board game, but a VR game. Just looking at the acronym; Virtual Reality, gives the concept that actions should be life-like

Oh no, you mean the developers can’t learn from games made in other mediums, they can only learn from VR because the concepts and game flow has to be exactly the same?? GASP :scream: How WRONG. Devs can reference ANY medium, not just VR.

Way to assume a VR gamer doesn’t understand the acronym for VR. Wanna tell me what www and HTTP mean next?

As for life-like, refer to my earlier point about realism features not in-game: the game really isn’t THAT life-like.

Just a heads up, D&D isn’t a board game, it’s a table-top RPG with limitless potential, limited only by player and Dungeon Master creativity. Board Games have strict rules, while in DnD there are millions of memes about players getting off track, murdering important plot characters, Dungeon Master making up the story as they go, horny bard marries the final boss/monster, party adopts a lone goblin/kobold/baby dragon/world eater cause ‘Aw cute party mascot’, etc.

DnD is basically a multiplayer choose-your-own-adventure game that can last as long as you want, and bend rules at the whim of the person telling the story: the dungeon master.

Also, for the record: DnD isn’t lifelike and realistic? You have to sleep to recharge skills/spells, eat food and hydrate to survive, if you wear heavy armor it penalizes your stealth rolls, and you don’t magically understand every language (unless you use the spell comprehend languages). Yes there are fantasy elements like magic, ogres and dragons, but aTT is ALSO fantasy. Turabadas, gotera, etc


One more time, just to try and make sure I get my -MAIN- point across:

THIS HAS BEEN AND ALWAYS WAS A REFERENCE FOR THE SAKE OF FURTHERING THE SUGGESTION’S CONVERSATION.

BUT MY REFERENCE IS A MAGIC ITEM, NOT A SKILL.
INFUSING IS THE SKILL. IT CREATES THE ITEM.

MAGIC ITEMS DON’T OPERATE BY THE SAME RULES AS SPELLS/SKILLS.

Thanks for reading. :thinking: