Overhaul of the In-game Progression

Buckle up it’s going to be a bit long.

Intro

Nowadays when a new player joins, he immediately acquires endgame Valyan Ingots or gear from other players and the progression is forever lost.

Meaning that new players most likely will play around 1-3 days and will quit the game.

The system I want to suggest involves a few small changes that will lead to a big overhaul of the progression system in game while still keeping the initial charm of ATT.

Summary:

Adds the concept of 3 tiers of progression, allowing players to use tools and gear only if they unlocked it, doing so prevents “skips” in progression and forces players to truly experience the game.

Core Concepts:

  • [Mystic Shrine] - A new shrine that is the device a player will use to unlock the progression tiers. Each tier can be unlocked with just one [Bravery Essence]

  • [Bravery Essence] - It is not a physical item, it will use the Heart flower mechanic, meaning that if you kill a mob ,you will acquire the essence with a certain drop rate (Like when shooting or hitting the Heart flowers). It doesn’t stack up(Like a stat). Players need to contribute/consume it in the [Mystic Shrine]

  • [Curse]- A system that prevents players from using tools and gear from higher tiers. When players hold it, it’s stats change to the same stats of a wooden stick and the whole thing turns into dark gray color. (Like the highlight of a charge but dark gray and not light blue)

  • [The Tiers]- 3 tiers , Iron,Silver,Mythril. In order to get the right essence a player must fight mobs in the appropriate depth inside the mines. Example: If you have unlocked Iron tier but you want to unlock the next tier you will have to fight on depths 20-50.

Extra:

  • The essence doesn’t stack up, therefore you can only hold one. Only once you consume it at the shrine the tier is unlocked. There will be a symbol on the wrist if you have acquired an essence.

  • The essence will be given to the player if he corresponds to all conditions:

    1. Dealt damage to the mob
    2. Within a certain radius
    3. Does not hold an essence already
    4. Haven’t unlocked this tier’s essence yet (you can’t acquire essence from lower tiers in mines)
  • The new essence system encourages the players to delve into the depths together and fight what the mines have to offer.

  • The player is able to craft and desmelt any-tier’s ores but wouldn’t be able to use higher tier tools.(You can craft Silver tools but wouldn’t be able to use them if you haven’t unlocked the tier due to the Curse.)

  • Alloys work the same , if you haven’t unlocked one of the metals involved, the weapon will still have the Curse on it.

Own thoughts:

I wrote the entire idea out of love and passion for the game i’ve been playing for years now, I really like the charm of ATT but the changes that were brought upon the game destroyed the balance and made the progression non existing and just no fun.

I feel that nowadays you can join in a fresh start and get the end gear from a passerby in 15 min , doing so completely removes the growth and development that you feel while playing this game.

I want to believe that I chose systems that are easy to implement and don’t require much change in the existing code ,most importantly it adds near to 0 game-art related content.

I am mostly sick of people dropping the game after 1-4 days and throwing the entire effort and polish of the project to the trash bin because it is too easy or too fast to be in the endgame.

I’m up for improvements or additional suggestions and would like to hear the community’s opinion.
Also, I have tinkered with the description of the concepts since the start of this thread

(I do understand that if the idea is going to be implemented it may require a wipe of the players progression, but as you all know it is a pre-Alpha.)

Bad Concept Art
Mine & Essence Tiers:


Wrist Indicator:

Shrine:

My only concern is the set distance away from the enemy condition. Me and probably some others snipe the rock bois from surprisingly far away with a bow.

Otherwise this is definitely a solid system. However, I feel like this would be just a place holder system until something better is come up with.

The system feels a bit strange with the suggested chance to drop the essence. Otheer could have incredible luck and other might have a bad day and never get it. People could just rush past the layers and depending on their luck they could get the essence pretty fast. I would suggest that if the system would be implemented with the drop rate, the essence would drop only after a set amount of monsters have been killed.

Otherwise, solid idea, solid system, I vouch for this.

2 Likes

I understand both concerns and I like the idea with the set amount of mobs, I just don’t know how much code will need to be changed in order to add such a system.
As for the snipers I think that the conditions can be adjusted if one have dealt damage with an arrow , like if you hit the mob with an arrow then it would cancel the radius criteria.
Thank you for the feedback !

1 Like

Combat only experience doesn’t work for artisans like blacksmiths or carpenters. They are more likely to buy and sell material.

3 Likes

Once you clear the tier you’re good to go , how does it stop blacksmiths or carpenters from playing ? I’ve been a blacksmith for as long as I can remember but I still had to start somewhere and venture to the mines for many times.
With this system you will have to venture to the mines for at least 3 times. That’s it, once you have the last tier it shouldn’t matter and it gives a big impact on the growth especially for artisans that get improved tools to work with. It could really set the line between a new blacksmith and a veteran in my opinion.
But thank you for the reply, If you have a way to fix what you think is wrong then I’m all up for it

1 Like

Well, I thought the idea was miners mine, fighters fight, carpenters woodwork. The game seems to be specifically against an all-skilled single player protagonist.

2 Likes

The game does discourage an all skilled single player but it doesn’t mean you can’t experience combat a bit, you still need to do it in order to progress if you start as a brand new player.
Also, experiencing different play styles that the game has to offer doesn’t seem like something bad to me.
(this convo went a bit off topic)

I’m not a huge fan of limiting progression this hard. Even if it were a minor hurdle, this just feels like an unnecessary limitation.
For a brand new and fresh player, this seems like a decent idea. They will be taking the game slow enough for it to not matter anyhow.
However, for an experienced player who wishes to delve into multiple servers and maintain characters on them, this greatly increases the time spent normally gearing up.

Regarding your main point of new players immediately getting gear from passerby, this is primarily an issue with stockpiles.
Because of the 18-ish months of the game not wiping and having any major resource sinks, combined with the fairly numerous dupe bugs that quite a few players abused heavily and saturated the economy with hundreds of thousands of valyan with, stockpiles are absurdly fat and the value of valyan is quite low. Players with said stockpiles tend to just throw out thousands of valyan because of their awareness of the upcoming forest wipe.

In brand new servers without any unnecessary spawning of resources, the valyan saturation is actually quite low, even for experienced miners. The wipe should fix a lot of the “have free end-game metal” not only from removing these stockpiles, but also adding a truckload of content to burn through before actually achieving any respectable stock of valyan.

6 Likes

You brought up the multiple servers problem which I was unaware of , probably due to the nature of people to stay only on one server. Thanks for bringing it up though.

As for your argument about my solution , it just feels that what you’re saying is that it’s not the game design’s fault but rather people who stack up in game items and dupes. Even if we get a wipe of our banks and inventories the mines remain infinite and all it takes is a bit of time to get a huge influx of end game ores again. This problem is bound to occur again due to this game’s flawed system.
You might think that it’s a limitation but it only comes from an experienced player view, a new player wouldn’t know better and right now we’re basically just pre-alpha testers, the solution I provided , like you said my be a minor hurdle but it really solves the whole problem without hopefully changing much code or game systems (because it is based on existing stuff) and really improves the in game progression (and the overall progression feel) which is the main problem.

Even though it is a long post, but didn’t take me very long I already see this idea break the biggest initial charm of ATT for me.
The biggest part is limit less of gearing. So you can grab anything from the floor and use it under certain circumstances.
If they add that limitation, I am out of here.
If there is anything that make certain “level” of players be less efficient using end tier gear, it is something up for me, but completely limiting this action from all scenario by that “curse” is not necessary.
Which compared to “leveling general tiers”, player status system they mentioned in Alta cast just sounded more fun.
Like, different metal have different weight, and if you don’t have much strength, if will be harder to use for you, but you should still be able to use it regardlessly.
So, any those limitation ideas of either player levels for gears or professions for gears, all looking at the very classic RPG style, but that is totally why I am here, because I am not looking for an classic RPG.
The charm of ATT is it isn’t just a classic RPG, so don’t make it one.

3 Likes

Thank you for responding,
I never heard the Alta cast so I have no idea what this whole player status system is but I just tried to provide a solution with the existing systems in mind.
I’d be more than happy if the devs could fix the same problem with less limiting and that ‘weight system’ sounds kinda fun but it’s not really something that I saw in game. I’d be glad if you can link the podcast so that I could hear the full idea .

1 Like

Altacast is their bi weekly youtube video of devs (mainly Bossun and Joel) talk about their future plans of the game or some of their ideas and vision, with a QnA section where they answer the player questions those left in the link in video description from the previous video.
And this player status system and weapon weight also material weight and status was some ideas here and there they talked about when they answering questions, so they have not focus on this topic for a video yet.
Therefore, I can’t pull up a link for you because it is more of a conclusion I gathered from multiple videos and different question answers.
But altacast is something I really recommend you to watch, it is enjoyable to see what devs are thinking and what is their vision of the future game also what is already on the road map. This would help you come up with quality ideas for forums post too, you can also ask questions about the game in the link under the video and they may answer it in the next video.
And if you wonder where to find altacast, the link of newest one will always be on the left side of your game launcher home page, and all the past once in their YouTube channel.

1 Like

Ah darn I’m late to the thread.

Anyways like AMAGI said level locking tiers is a big no no, but making it less efficient is good since you aren’t out right stopping players from stuff just nerfing it. I think a good disadvantage for using tools you shouldn’t be, if a weight system isn’t enough, is making it take more durability damage, which could make sense for light but high tier metals.

I do at least like the idea that there was a curse stopping you from using higher tiers as that gives some reasoning behind it.

Another thing on top of players having their invs and banks wiped is that the devs have already started to blance val to be something you shouldn’t have full sets of, in the sense that it should be breaking faster than you can replace it if you have full val. If it gets blanced enough (or aleeady is) then not only are we starting blank, but players shouldn’t be handing out val if it takes away from what val they can use. Though other metals might be a differnt story.

Also a way to fix the problem of having to grind on every new server is to have bravery work on a by player bases, where getting all of it done on a main server would mean you wouldn’t have to do it on any new server (unless it’s an option server owners can told for their server).

4 Likes

How about you just toss you’r bag in the lake and start over , or refuse gifts.

Because it’s suppose to be an overhaul to make the experience better as a whole, not just for people that forcibly and continuously try to go out of their way to make their experience better.

2 Likes

Ya, I’m not sure on this. Imagine if Minecraft locked away the ability to use diamond until you killed a zombie in a cave or something along those lines. Let people use the tools that they get, whenever they get them. The game is in pre-alpha, so if people get bored with the lack of content, that’s fine. The game isn’t in a finished state, not even really close. If people want to mess around with valyan, let them enjoy it. It slows skill progression since it takes less hits to kill things with valyan anyways, and chances are, unless they are immediately going into the mines to stock up on more mithril and silver, once the tool breaks, they’d have to progress naturally anyways. As well, this isn’t as much of an issue on lower pop servers. I’m the only one on my server who mines; I have my boyfriend who does lumber and forest stuff, and another friend who loots chests, and kills baddies. If this system was in place, they’d have to follow me down to the mine and kill some rock bois just so they could use the tools that I was giving them.

Keep in mind, IIRC, this post was made before valyan was balanced, so this was made with the mind set that people could just boost people past most of the content just with some valyan.

Personally I think there should be some system in the game that makes you less effective with high end tools early on, something like skill levels or maybe actual skills on the skill trees, but as I’ve said a flat lock out is just doesn’t feel right or fit.

1 Like